Moonspell Bloodlines

Hails, I just wanted to say "hello" and thank you for your contribution on our yet small Wikipedia. I am the admin and whenever you have any questions just tell me. I am mostly every day here to look for vandalism or what is happening. For writing articles my time is often too short, I hope that'll change in future. Zylbath (talk) 08:53, 3 𐍆𐌰𐌽𐌹𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Wordlist

Hey. Just asking, because I couldn't quite check it. But when you are editing the page Niuja waurda are you just rearranging the words and columns or adding words? Cause under the last title there are just the words that are from the list of the gothic mailing list. If you made up new words, you have to put them under the first title. But maybe/actually you could save the trouble as actually all words should be at some time transferred to this page: Portal:𐍅𐌰𐌿𐍂𐌳𐌰𐌱𐍉𐌺𐍉𐍃. This is supposed to be a better way to deal with words and recreating new ones. When you are editing the list it might be more appropriate to transfer them instead of having so much effort if one does both. Do you know what I mean? Zylbath (talk) 09:40, 4 𐍆𐌰𐌽𐌹𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Yea i get it, i wasn't rearranging the words, i was either adding words or fixing some mispellings that i find. Eventually all of the words in Niuja Waúrda? I looked at the page and it puts them alphabetical order, makes it a lot easier.

Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 17:14, 4 𐍆𐌰𐌽𐌹𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, that adding might be problematic as we don't know from whom which word comes. When we transfer the words to the waurdabokos that wouldn't be important anymore. But I just guess I won't have the time to master that transfer in the near future. Do you see yourself in the position to do that? Zylbath (talk) 17:41, 4 𐍆𐌰𐌽𐌹𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Yea I'd loved to, but it's just at the moment I don't have my computer right now. I'm on my Playstation 3, therefore it may take longer to transfer words in the waúrdabokos. About your Gothic association group, i wish the website was in English, i do not speak Low German, even though i'm German descent :D.

Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 21:37, 4 𐍆𐌰𐌽𐌹𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

And as far as im concerned, i don't have permission to edit the Portal page. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 22:26, 4 𐍆𐌰𐌽𐌹𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Oh, nice to hear, you have ever heard of Low German. Many people don't, not even here, where this regional language is spoken. But the website www.vereindergotischensprache.de is not in Low German, it's in German. I am sorry, we don't have a translation so far. But still, you can become a member, it's all for free, you don't have to do anything and you can quit it everytime you want. Otherwise you could try to use Google translator, it can also translate web pages, mostly under Google chrome. Zylbath (talk) 09:08, 6 𐍆𐌰𐌽𐌹𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Yea, i never heard it but, i can kind of see the difference between the two, when i'm on wiktionary on Proto-Germanic, on the decendants section, personally, i don't really like the German language, i just don't like the way it sounds and i don't like umlauts, that's just opinion though. Gothic to me sounds more appealing, and it doesn't jumble two or three words into one word, it instead has hyphenes in between words. I do take German words to make new Gothic words though. I translated web pages, in Latin. I wish google translator had Gothic for an option, but i don't think it'll happen. As for German, in America where i live, there are not any German speaking communities where i am. But in the east in they have what they call "Pennsylvania German" or "Deitsch". If Gothic was around today, it may differ from Europe to the Americas. But i believe Gothic should go through little or no changes at all, like Icelandic. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 18:27, 6 𐍆𐌰𐌽𐌹𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Oh and about Gothic, if it was also spoken in America, it would be influenced by English, Spanish, and the Native American languages. I have taken some words from Nahuatl, Blackfoot and the Myan languages into Gothic. Words for like teepee, Native American weaponry and territories. This "American Gothic" will probably have borrowed words for these things, while the European style may look at native Germanic words in there place. I don't borrow (or at least try not to) many words, as most of the words i get are from Proto-Germanic. What do you think of Gothic's development in the United States or on two separate continents no less? Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 19:05, 6 𐍆𐌰𐌽𐌹𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Hey

I wanted to thank you for your contributions, I have done some attempts to revive Gothic, but it seems to be too difficult. When I try to get people together it fails because of lack of motivation, you are doing some work to actually let Gothic being used in our modern time.

You also seem to be proficient in Gothic. 𐌹𐌺 𐌽𐌹 𐌼𐌰𐌲 𐍂𐍉𐌳𐌾𐌰𐌽 𐌲𐌿𐍄𐌹𐍃𐌺𐍃 𐌰𐌱𐍂𐌰𐌱𐌰 𐌲𐍉𐌸𐍃 𐌽𐌿, 𐌰𐌺 𐌹𐌺 𐌷𐌰𐌱𐌰 𐍆𐌹𐌻𐌿 𐌰𐌽𐌰𐌺𐌿𐌽𐌸𐍃 𐌱𐌹 𐌸𐌰𐌽𐌰 𐍂𐌰𐌶𐌳𐌰, 𐌹𐌽 𐌸𐌹𐌶𐌴𐌹 𐌲𐌿𐍄𐌹𐍃𐌺𐍃 𐌼𐌹𐍃 𐍅𐌿𐌻𐌸𐍂𐌴𐌹𐍃 𐌹𐍃𐍄.

𐍈𐌹𐍅𐌰 𐌸𐌿 𐌻𐌰𐌹𐍃𐌾𐌰𐌳𐌰 𐌲𐌿𐍄𐌹𐍃𐌺𐌰 𐍂𐌰𐌶𐌳𐌰?

Bokareis (talk) 00:49, 24 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Yea i'm like, "am I the only one making new articles?" i want Gothic to be used in modern times, as well as Latin. I love both languages. I wouldn't call myself "proficient", but I am quite good at Gothic, been studying it for a few years now. I continue to make more articles, as I am the only one who is really creating article after article. I also want the entries to not be so "stub-like", I want them to have more info on them than just a few lines. I created stubs, but I plan to expand them. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 03:29, 24 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

That's very nice. I 'm actually looking for people which want to speak Gothic with me, I don't know if you have Skype or MSN, but if you like you can add me to chat with eachother. Although I 'm still studying the grammar of Gothic I can already say a few things.

Like I said, I 'm still studying the grammar, but once I 'm good enough I want to support you and also expand articles and write new and long ones. I tried to establish a radio in Gothic, and I have made a free radio, but it only contains 4 audio fragments, as that's about everything I could find on the net. I tried to get together people who wanted to contribute, I had one person who reacted, but he seems to have forgotten as I haven't got mails anymore. So there isn't a lot of motivation for this. The reason that I wanted to establish a Gothic radio is because broadcasting short interviews and documentaries might be of help to people to learn to listen to it and to speak it and if we might want to create native speakers in the future, you need some kind of source. Well, it worked with Esperanto, but for Gothic we need to get all interested people together in some way, maybe Spain or Italy might have people interested in the Gothic language. Bokareis (talk) 00:51, 25 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Ah! Like the Gothic equivalent to Nuntii Latini, the Latin news radio that's broadcasted in Finland. That would be a great idea, but besides me and you, who would be interested? I do have Skype. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 03:42, 25 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Yes indeed, but instead of just news broadcasts I was thinking about the idea of also writing short informative texts in Gothic and recording them. We then already have the audio recordings which we can broadcast at the radio, but if we are able to make a good looking short documentary, with maps and special effects etc., we can make an appealing movie which will make Gothic being used as other languages are also used. I know that they are currently translating le petit prince in Gothic, so at least there will be some modern literature available in the future. It's a shame that there aren't, just like with modern day Hebrew some people which actually want to write new literature. But that's probably because we don't have a central organization which a lot of people know and can access. Bokareis (talk) 21:10, 25 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I actually, want to translate the Aeneid, Iliad, Odyssey, Prose Edda, Poetica Edda, Nibelugenlied, and other known texts in Gothic. I had this idea for long time now. le petit prince? never heard of it and didn't know people are making a Gothic version, that's interesting. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 03:19, 26 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Hello, I think it's nice that you are getting in touch with each other. Gothic needs more networks, the gothic email list is quite anachronical in times of web 2.0 but still serves the purpose. I am sorry, Moonspell Bloodlines, that you are currently the only one writing articles. I am very happy that there is at least someone, we sometimes have had months here where no articles at all were created. I have given myself too many private projects with languages and other stuff that I can't find the time to write articles. I can only come here in order to take a look whether everything is right. If I am focusing on Gothic I am mostly busy with my association of the Gothic language. (www.vereindergotischensprache.de) You, Bokareis, already know it. ;) The person you are talking about that wants to translate the little prince might be me, I have already spoken about that on several occasions. I can't really find enough time for it since it is quite difficult. Almost every fifth words has to be reconstructed and that takes quite a while.

I was actually thinking of turning the association into an institute (that name is luckily not protected ;)) to make it sounds more like a work progress and process. And maybe it can get more international, it is quite a problem that a German association for Gothic just keeps being for the German speaking bunch of people. But there will be only a mass of people if it gets international I guess. But for so far the association is a one-man-thing which is me. But nevertheless we have about 30-40 members. ;) Maybe in the near future I can find more time for it. Zylbath (talk) 22:42, 26 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Yes Zylbath, I may be the only one, but that's ok with me. There are a lot of articles in the 𐍅𐌰𐌹𐌷𐍄𐌹𐌸𐍉𐍃 𐍃𐌴𐌹𐌳𐍉𐍃 𐌳𐌿 𐌼𐌰𐌹𐌳𐌾𐌰𐌽 page, just waiting to be written. If I have to write them all, I shall! :) Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 18:33, 27 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Very good! That's the spirit I want to hear here ;) Zylbath (talk) 11:23, 28 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

You don't need to write them all Moonspell, give me some more time to learn Gothic. Hey Zylbath. Might you be interested in helping with the Gothic radio? I try to find people which want to record Gothic texts, but no one seems to want to. In this way it will never work. I think that we really need a radio, every serious language has it's own radio, Esperanto is an artificial language and has it's own radio and even Klingon has it's own radio. We simply can't miss Gothic but we don't have any material to broadcast. The link to the radio which I have created is , but I simply don't have enough stuff to broadcast so currently I don't broadcast anything because it's not worth it. And it would be good if we had a server to let them broadcast 24/7 and to have fast connections, but that costs money and I don't know if I want to spend the big amount of money needed for a radio for a radio project of which I don't even know if it will work. The best thing would be of course if we could get it as far as the Welsh language, with not only radio, but also television broadcasts (with YouTube, like documentaries in which someone visits old Gothic history and tells about it in the Gothic language itself, with English subtitles of course :D) . But we will need more people for this. If you want to have an international organization, I can deal with the Dutch sub-part of your organization. As I want to contribute to the Gothic project, this might be good and I wonder too if you can't find some way to make it in an official organization. Can you look for contact with the linguist Wolfram Euler? I tried to contact him but I don't know how. The only information about him which I can find are the books which he has written. Bokareis (talk) 23:31, 28 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Bokareis, I get what you are saying, but I'm more experienced in Gothic (if you want me to take you under my wing, i'd be glad to). I like this radio idea but it can take years to conceive. I have other projects I'd like to do that are not related to Gothic. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 05:32, 29 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Hey Moonspell, could you add my Skype roel1170, I 'm looking for people to converse with about the Gothic language and it might make talking easier than on Wikipedia. Kind regards Bokareis (talk) 23:43, 31 𐌱𐌻𐍉𐌼𐌰𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Hello Moonspell, could you come online at Skype soon? I need some help with new words in Gothic for which new words don't exist, and I don't have the right to add new words to any page, so I have to basically think of new ones and I can't add them. I want to discuss some new word constructions with another person interested in Gothic, as these will be used on this website I 'm translating. 84.26.254.29 21:48, 4 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Bokareis, every time you get on Skype I'm not on, and every time I get on Skype you're not on. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 02:14, 5 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I guess our timezones are the problem. I 'm online at night too though. Bokareis (talk) 12:59, 5 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I live in the U.S. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 03:49, 6 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

A question

Hello moonspell, I just found out that Twitter can be translated in languages if there is enough demand for them. Guess what? It's able to submit Gothic. Even if you don't use Twitter this will make Gothic being used more, so I would like to ask if you want to support me by requesting the language. Requesting languages at Twitter is possible here:

https://translate.twitter.com/lang_request

Bokareis (talk) 00:16, 3 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I do have Twitter, yes. This is nice, I may also want to request Latin.Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 02:29, 3 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Latin is actually already added, you can find it in their translate list here:

https://translate.twitter.com/welcome/signup/2

No need to request it anymore. Gothic however, can't be chosen from the list, that's why we need enough requests to get it added. Could you please find other people interested in the Gothic language and ask them to do a request, so that we can have more certainity that it will be added? Thanks Bokareis (talk) 11:32, 4 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I helped you a bit out with your page

Look what I did to your page: https://got.wikipedia.org/wiki/%F0%90%8C%BE%F0%90%8C%BF%F0%90%8C%BB%F0%90%8C%B4%F0%90%8C%B9%F0%90%8D%83_%F0%90%8C%BA%F0%90%8C%B0%F0%90%8C%B9%F0%90%8D%83%F0%90%8C%B0%F0%90%8D%82

I didn't really know what to do with the numbers, so I kept them the same, if you know how to handle them in Gothic you can change them as you like.

It's possible that I made some typos, but I think that you wrote a very nice article. Maybe the biggest one at our Gothic wikipedia. Bokareis (talk) 00:26, 7 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Bokareis, I was going to do that, I just was doing other things and it kinda slipped my mind :D I appreciate it though. And about the names, the names that are in Italics and parenthesis are the Latin names 𐌰𐌿𐍂𐌴𐌻𐌾𐌰 𐌺𐍉𐍄𐍄𐌰 (Gothic: transliteration of Áurelja Kotta) (Latin: Aurelia Cotta). Also yea it's big, it took me days to make it, I translated the Gothic words, word per word, it was a lot of work. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 03:34, 7 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I will in the future add the Gothic transcription for all your articles. In that way you can write a lot more articles without having to write it all over again and as I can just choose a Gothic keyboard layout for my computer, that saves time for you and can help to make this Wikipedia bigger in a shorter amount of time, it's a piece of cake for me to re-type your long articles in Gothic in about 10 minutes. Bokareis (talk) 23:37, 7 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Ah cool, yea I have a Gothic keyboard on my keyboard lists entitled "English (United Kingdom)" which is the Gothic alphabet and yea if I write it all by hand twice yea that's a challenge. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 03:44, 8 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Harry Potter and translation

I had a question. I was just reading Wikipedia about revived old languages and I read that Harry Potter has been translated in Latin and Old Greek. I don't know if anyone is willing to do this, but might it be an idea if some members try together or one member which is good to translate Harry Potter in Gothic? The book is already translated in other ancient languages.

Maybe if we all take a chapter the translation might be much faster than if one person does it.~The vocabulary of Harry Potter also doesn't contain a lot of modern words, as it's in a magical place. Bokareis (talk) 22:01, 7 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Actually I have some ideas of translating LOTR books and Goosebumps, Game of Thrones books and possibly Harry Potter in Gothic. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 22:08, 7 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I see, I will probably try to write some original work in Gothic as soon as I 'm fluent enough. Bokareis (talk) 23:36, 7 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

A question about Gothic and why it might not be popular

I think that it's possible that because of the alphabet which few people can read, few people are interested in learning it, as they can't even read it. Just a thought, what do you think? I thought that "bi-alphabetical" editions of translations might be an idea, as people who are educated enough can use the Gothic alphabet, but unless we use the Latin Alphabet, most people won't really want to read in Gothic or learn it, as it's too much of an obstacle. bi-alphabetical might be smart though, as the original Gothic was in the Gothic alphabet. Bokareis (talk) 22:01, 7 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

A lot of people find the Latin alphabet as a whole to be boring (believe it or not) and people are probably too lazy to get a hang of the Gothic alphabet, so I think Gothic is in between a rock and a hard place, so to speak. Gothic translated books I was think of having the Gothic alphabet on the left side of the page and the transliteration on the right page, similar to Sanskrit-Romanization texts, since a lot of us (including myself) don't understand Devanagari. That's my point of view on it I think. I think Gothic should go back to being written in runes, I like runes (I'm also of Germanic ancestry). Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 22:16, 7 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I think that your transcription idea is not bad at all. It's perfect for our purpose actually, as it will make books accessible for both audiences. Hmmm, I 'm Dutch and I got interested in Gothic because of the similarities with my language. Of what kind of Germanic ancestry are you and what got you interested in Gothic? Bokareis (talk) 23:39, 7 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

My Germanic ancestry is German (Suebi?), Dutch (Frankish), English (Anglo-Saxon), I'm also Celtic (Irish and Scottish) and Native American. A Youtuber named "BenJamin P. Johnson" got me interested in it with his "Gothic for Goths" videos. Gothic similar to Dutch? Hmm, it may be but I like to have Gothic in a spectrum like this (Gothic, Old Norse, Old Saxon) like today's (English, Dutch, German) spectrum. Gothic, Old Norse and Old Saxon are very similar, Old Saxon being the closest West Germanic language to Gothic. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 01:38, 8 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

That's a coincidence, Gothic subculture got me interested in the Gothic language too. I know Benjamin P. Johnsons videos too, they are quite good.

Well, some phonological features of Gothic are left in Dutch and maybe Frisian, but not in other languages. Old English used to have them too, but English transformed to a completely different language. Bokareis (talk) 01:53, 8 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Yea the Sith language in Star Wars has a similarity with the way Gothic "died". In Star Wars, Sith was a language spoken by the ancient red-skinned species called Sith, who practiced the way of the darkside of the Force, centuries later, the Sith species were all extinct, except on one planet where they came to be known as the "Lost tribe of the Sith", while the evil Sith Lords of the faction of "The Dark Lord of the Sith" (Darth Sidious, Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus, Darth Maul and Darth Vader could speak ancient Sith). Gothic has a similar story, Gothic was spoken by a tribe called the Goths, the Goths died out (and or assimilated into other tribes) and the Gothic language is now spoken by Goths of the Gothic subculture, some may even speak it fluently. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 02:37, 8 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I wonder how many of them actually speak Goth. I 'm currently building a website which is ment as an international website for Gothic, I found a very good template for it today. I will give you the link when it's far done. It's ment as a discussion site and as a meeting place for revivers of Gothic. Bokareis (talk) 03:26, 8 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I'm also a Goth (you probably already know that :D), and one day I thought, hey the Gothic lifestyle has, music, architecture, art, clothes and and thought why not speak a language called Gothic to complete my Gothness XD. I still need to buy clothes for my woredrobe, I have a ton of stuff saved on my Amazon, just need the money. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 03:48, 8 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I 'm.. well, I just consider myself alternative. My clothing set doesn't really have very colorful stuff, except for black xD I like the band Tool, do you know them? They are pretty cool.

I have heard of them, their songs are played on my radio station, but my favorite bands are Lacuna Coil, Halestorm, and Nightwish. Most of the stuff i wear is black, but I have a few shirts that are of different colors. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 02:44, 12 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I have a few CDs of Nightwish and Lacuna Coil, good stuff. My favorite bands are some others though, do you know Nu-Rap? Some people hate it, but I really appreciate the sound of bands like P.O.D., Incubus etc.

I start to develop an interest in other music too though. I used to really hate Hip-Hop, but I discovered that there's actually quite complex Hip-Hop music with a very good combination of samples and intellectual lyrics. And Ambient always gives some very good music. I make myself too, do you make music too? Bokareis (talk) 19:03, 12 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC) My international Website for the (Neo-)Gothic language is already developing by the way. It doesn't have an official domain yet: http://roel.tengudev.com/GutiskaRazda/index.php

Bokareis (talk) 21:43, 11 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

No. I don't listen to rap, country or hip hop, I listen to classical rock, alternative rock, gothic rock, gothic metal, alternative metal, speed metal, techno, dubstep and "active rock" that's on my radio station, 94.1 WJJO. It's considered one of the most one of the hardest active rock radio stations in the country, and was voted #1 Rock Station in the country by the music industry in 2006 and 2007. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 02:34, 13 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

That's nice, I will take a listen to that radio station if I can listen to it online. I have a question by the way. What do you use for looking up Gothic words? When I try to write in Gothic, I encounter problems because I can see in no way which stem I have to use for a word, so right now I know the A-stems and U-stems without even looking them up, but for most words they are useless as I don't even know when to use these stems. Bokareis (talk) 19:51, 13 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

http://www.oe.eclipse.co.uk/nom/egdhome.htm. I use this to look up words and this freelang dictionary, http://www.freelang.net/dictionary/gothic.php. I use it to make and store new words, quotes, place names, people, and pretty much everything. I love it. Oh, I was also planning to start a band with a few people (it is just a thought right now). The band would be called "Gutans" (Gothic: The Goths). It would basically be Goth band members and the lyrics would be in Gothic. But I also thought some lyrics could also be in other languages. It would be a goth rock/goth metal band. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 00:09, 14 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Also here is WJJO's website http://www.wjjo.com/. Hit "Stream Us" to listen to the radio station live. I do this on my computer whenever I'm bored with the music that's on my computer. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 00:12, 14 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Those are good links. I really encourage you to do this, the current Gothic language bands can be counted at own hand, about 1 or 2 I guess, of the findable ones. This is the only band I could find singing in Gothic and they just have one song:

http://www.reverbnation.com/gothicsage

I 'm currently creating a Memrise course for Gothic by the way, I do it to contribute to the spread of the Gothic language, maybe you will like it too: http://www.memrise.com/course/329747/the-gothic-language-gutiska-razda/

I really want this to become a full course for Gothic and that people really can read a lot of Gothic once they have finished it, so it isn't a short course!

Do you come up with a lot of neologisms by the way? I 'm currently building a website specially for submitting new Gothic vocabulary, you can vote at submitted words and you can choose things like stems and gender when you submit words, just like Wikipedia, but you don't have to write everything by hand, all the data is automatically sorted in a table. Bokareis (talk) 02:24, 14 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Ah! A while ago I found two Gothic songs on youtube, both sung by an artist named "Aelfric" "Gautis Bida (The Prayer of Gaut)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xTqt_l2BtA and "Guþe Inweita (Invocation of the Gods)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs-Bk43uRVM. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 03:26, 14 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

And by the way, I'm Pagan, therefore I want Gothic to have Pagan vocabulary, also containing quotes from the Iliad (Gothic: Ilias) and the Aeneid (Gothic: Áineis) as I also want to translate these books in Gothic, I also want to translate the Norse Edda in Gothic. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 03:44, 14 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I think that there is space for Pagan vocabulary, but I think that we should turn the development of Gothic in a democratic process and as we will use the language in the modern age, it would be very limiting if we would use Pagan vocabulary. Pagan vocabulary might be useful for Pagan gatherings in Gothic, but that still would be just one aspect and all the general vocabulary can't be turned into Pagan vocabulary, as it's better that we, just like Icelandic, use existing words to form new words. I also don't really see what you mean with Pagan vocabulary, as this would really limit us in the use of the Gothic language. Also, Paganism is a modern term. The only historical forms of paganism were Ancient Egyptian, Semitic and Mesopotamian. What the Old Goths adhered was in a period much later in comparison to traditional paganism and there are modern forms of Paganism like Wicca, Witchcraft, Celtic and Slavic paganism, which basically means the return to the old folklore and religions of these cultures. I really like them, the only thing which I don't like is how some people misuse paganism for their political ideologies, while the return to these old cultures and religions itself isn't a bad thing in our modern times in which a lot of beautiful old cultures disappear by a lot of ugly modern, capitalistic-aimed culture.

Christianity claimed itself to be the absolute opposite of paganism, so you can of course find words which are related to paganism in the Bible, but I think this still will be a very dense vocabulary, too small to do something useful with.

I just added a function at my website to automatically conjugate nouns by the way when you have entered the stem. I tested it with the word 'dags' and it works. I want to create a seperate list of existing Gothic words like 'dags' and have the conjugate function there so that you can look up the conjugations of words very easily. It will be a lot of work though as most words have unregular conjugations. It might even be not possible with a lot of words. I still have to see how I will work this out.

Well I'm a Roman Pagan, that's why I made Gothic words for the Greco-Roman gods. And by "Pagan vocabulary" I didn't say to limit with it I just want Gothic to have more Pagan related words added in with modern era terms as well as other religious words that deal with Buddhism and Hinduism, every religion fascinates me, whether it is polytheistic or monotheistic. Philosophical vocabulary should be present also. So I have no intention of replacing it with Pagan vocabulary. Also the Goths were Germanic Pagans, they worshiped Thor, (Þunar), Frigg (Friddi), and so on. What we call "Norse Paganism" is just a branch of Germanic Paganism, the religion was basically the same for all different Germanic tribes, just the names and concepts of it were different because of the many Germanic languages. Gothic sáiþi I derived from Old Norse seiðr, which is an Old Norse term for a type of sorcery, I have no doubt that all other Germanic tribes (including the Goths) practiced Seiðr. It was also associated with Oðinn (Wodans, Odin). Although, from what I read, the sources about Gothic Paganism maybe practiced sáiþi with their sky god Faírguneis (identified with Roman Jupiter and Greek Zeus), since the sources are doubtful that they worshiped a Gothic equivalent of Odin. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 16:42, 16 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Bokareis (talk) 19:53, 15 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

By the way, I just re-read your post about the Gothic family relationship:

Gothic similar to Dutch? Hmm, it may be but I like to have Gothic in a spectrum like this (Gothic, Old Norse, Old Saxon) like today's (English, Dutch, German) spectrum. Gothic, Old Norse and Old Saxon are very similar, Old Saxon being the closest West Germanic language to Gothic.

As the old English language was mostly the Saxon language, you will see that both Saxon and Gothic, they are actually very similar to Dutch. If you listen to Old English while your native language is Dutch, you can understand about 95%. Maybe 96%. I listened to such a video and if I wouldn't have known English but just Dutch, I could even simply communicate with such an Old English person, as the language of the old English people and our language, Dutch, are very much alike and a lot of the core-vocabulary is almost the same. You know the word exit? In modern 21st century Dutch it's 'uitgang'. In Old English it's exactly the same: 'utgang'. I was really surprised. The difference is basically just that of a dialect. Bokareis (talk) 19:58, 15 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

You maybe right about that, but I know that Gothic, Old Norse, Old Saxon are similar (it goes in that order). Like the word blood (Gothic: blōþ, Old Norse/Icelandic: blóð, Old English/Old Saxon: blōd) in Modern Dutch however, is bloed. I'm talking about spelling here, but I think both Gothic and Old Norse words for blood were pronounced the same. I speak Gothic, yes, and my best friend speaks Old Norse, so we could probably understand each other to an extent. And it's not just blóð/blōþ but also many other words are similar. Now about Old English, it's I believe descended from both Old Saxon and Angles' language, but think about the languages alone, Old English is different from Old Saxon, as in the god Thor, Thunar in Saxon, Þunor in Old English. Anyway Old Saxon developed into modern Low German (which I just call Modern Saxon). Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 16:42, 16 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

By the way, did you check out WJJO? Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 17:31, 16 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I haven't listened to WJJO yet today, but I will do it. I have a problem with declining words, so I 'm building a Gothic declining tool myself. You can view and use it here: http://roel.tengudev.com/GutiskaRazda/words.php

I have a problem by the way. How do I have to declense modern Gothic words? I see at the description for example: databus, masc. weak. I 'm really in need of knowing this, also for writing articles.

But it could still be both a u-stem or an a-stem, so how do I know how to decline the word? As you can't really see it in the nominative of a word itself. If I know this I could build a declining tool for modern words too. And I want to build in some more functions so that people can submit new words for Gothic and vote for words of themselves and others. Then Admins can accept words.

I will first input all the current words from the Wikipedia new words, I use those as a basis for Neo-Gothic, as this place is the best modern place already using Gothic, so we should start from here to spread Gothic.

Bokareis (talk) 18:29, 16 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Here is the noun inflection tables on Wiktionary: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Gothic_noun_inflection-table_templates and here is the one for verbs https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Gothic_verb_inflection-table_templates and pronouns https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Gothic_pronoun_inflection-table_templates and adjectives https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Gothic_adjective_inflection-table_templates. Hope this helps my friend. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 20:04, 16 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I have a question by the way. Could you contact Zylbath? I want to do things like adding links to articles and adding certain words or the most appropriate stems of words to the new words-list, but I currently can't do this.

Bokareis (talk) 21:23, 16 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I can't do this either, I tried contacting him but no response. I think you have to be an admin to add words to the list. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 23:20, 16 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Hello, I am sorry, I couldn't read through your whole conversation. If there are more questions than the last one, please let me now. To the script thing I want to add, that Wikipedia closed the translation function via Translatewiki for the Gothic Wikipedia because in the past the admins and users used to much latin script. As Gothic was a language with an own script, it has be used; otherwise it is not an original form. But for those who cannot display Gothic Script or read it, I made those dropdown boxes that you can see at many articles at the top.

To your questions: It is possible for everybody to add links to articles:

[http://www.youradress.com Your Adress]

The two dictionary pages Gothic-English and English-Gothic are under protection, so only admins can change them. I did this because of vandalism and because I think it is better if we go the way I intended there: That means that all new suggestions of words should be discussed first here and if you intend to start a discussion on an already existing word you can do it here. It is and was really, really confusing if everybody changes a word here and another there and there is no discussion. Because a language development should not be a one-man-thing but base upon a consense of various people. Are you okay with that answer? Zylbath (talk) 14:04, 17 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Yea, that's fine. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 15:16, 17 𐍅𐌰𐍂𐌼𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Your question about a Bible translation

I 'm sorry but I haven't visited Wikipedia since a long time so I read your message now. Yes, I agree that we need to translate the parts which aren't translated yet, other parts can stay the same. It's a coincidence as I thought of this too. A translation of the Quran might be interesting too, but the problem is that most Arabs or Arabic-speaking people can't write Gothic and they wouldn't even want it too, also, I don't know if a lot of people really want to read the Quran in Gothic. There are however people which want to read the Bible in Gothic so translating the other parts might be a nice addition.

I had in mind to actually let a company press some books or magazines in Gothic which I can write with other people and a person which might add a nice magazine lay-out to the texts in PDF, but the problem is that

I 'm currently pubishing a, I hope daily, Gothic newspaper in the Gothic language. It's called Himma daga, so as I wrote newspaper-articles in it I don't know if I have any time anymore for such a project. I also don't think that the chance is big that we just like in Esperanto will actually publish such a book so I recommend to wait until the community is bigger. Bokareis (talk) 00:29, 21 𐌰𐍃𐌰𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

What about a translation of the Hindu Vedas or any other Hinduism or Buddhism text? I am deriving words from Sanskrit, and translations wouldn't be complete without loan words from Sanskrit.Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 16:39, 22 𐌰𐍃𐌰𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

The gothic mailing list at yahoo already translated parts of the untranslated bible. You should take a look at that. They are still working on it, I guess. Zylbath (talk) 22:28, 25 𐌰𐍃𐌰𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Gothic literature

It looks good to me, but maybe you should add more literature, as that's the name of the group. I 'm translating the other 3 chapters of the communist manifesto in Gothic, if you like it and you consider it as literature you could add it, I translated the complete 4th chapter already. You could also link to my news website. I have one recommendation. Gothic was originally written in the Gothic script by Wulfila, not in Runic letters, Runic letters were used for Proto-Germanic and although Proto-Germanic was close to Gothic, they aren't the same languages. http://communistmanifestoingothic.wordpress.com/

What it is like now is ok, but you also add things which to me seem irrelevant. I was already planning to translate short stories and/or short books in Gothic which I will bundle/combine at an online Gothic library, in which I want to include the complete communist manifesto. I hope it will be there in the future.

I have a question by the way. You used 'brahtiþ' for 'brought', but as far as I remember this is not a preterite 3rd person ending. Isn't it brahta? Could you check this with www.verbix.com, because your text has a different meaning as it would mean 'brings' otherwise.

In your poem to Juno you say: miþ þeina In Gothic, the dative of possessive pronouns is either: þeinamma, for male and neutral words, or þeinái for female ones. Could you correct this? Ĩ understand that your Gothic is not perfect, but this is basic grammar. Oh yeah, and you have to use the dative here because the Gothic word 'miþ' is a word which includes a 3rd case, this means a dative.

'Þu jah þatei ráuþs snagins' You can use 'þata' here, 'þatei' is used when you refer to a thing you named in your previous sentence. For example: Manna ïst her, manna saei fodeins bringiþ A man is here, the man which brings food'

or:

Qaþ waúrd, waúrd þatei mikil ïst

This means: He/She said a word, a word that/which is big.

In your sentence however, you directly refer to the coat, so it would be: 'You and the red coat', not: 'You and which red coat', because the red coat isn't put in a sentence yet, so you can't refer to it with 'þatei'. Of course you have artistic freedom in poems, but this is a really strange way to form your sentence.

I also came across this: frijands, this doesn't exist in Gothic, in your English translation which I just saw, from which I can see that it's 'robe' instead of 'coat', it says: loving mother, if you look up the verb frijôn at verbix, you will see that the present participle is 'frijônds', so if you use that word it's correct.Bokareis (talk) 17:19, 13 𐌰𐌺𐍂𐌰𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

First off, my poem to Juno was made a long time ago, and I wasn't as good as Gothic as i am now. Second, ther are Gothic runes and I am writing Gothic in Runes because I like runes. It was written in runes, there's not a lot of stones with them, but that doesn't mean they didn't write in them. Wikipeadia even says that Elder Futhark was used to write Proto-Germanic, Proto-Norse, Gothic and Alamannic. So i'm gonna stick with runes. I used either or writing ssystem, be it Latin, Runic or Gothic, I just prefer runes.Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 17:20, 1 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

A tool to convert to Gothic unicode

Hey Moonspell, I thought that we might be doing useless work by re-typing everything in Gothic unicode. Instead I have written a piece of code in PHP, if you insert Latin text, it converts to Gothic unicode. You can also convert Gothic unicode to Latin text, it also looks at starting sentences and gives sentences a capital letter when they start.

http://roel.tengudev.com/GutiskaRazda/a_gothic.php

That is a pretty cool tool. I should add it to a tool page here on Wikipedia soon. Zylbath (talk) 19:55, 13 𐌰𐌺𐍂𐌰𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Yea this makes it so much easier as well as make pages faster. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 05:29, 14 𐌰𐌺𐍂𐌰𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Hi

I checked your literature facebook again and let me first say that I have absolutely no problem with you using my header from my Gothic news website, I just want to say that multiple websites using it isn't very unique and I could make a different one for your Facebook page which fits the page better. If you give me the width and height I can create one for you. I don't see a problem in stucking to this one but I have a collection of very nice Gothic pages and I can make an image for your Facebook page with the original red parchment. Furthermore I want to ask if you could first really good look at your texts before posting them. For example, you use: Alþeis Aggilisks (Old English), we aren't sure thought if Goths also used these adjectives and you are safe by staying to what this Wikipedia and what everyone uses, Aggiliskarazda.

And is Wistr Flēmisks Wistraflēmisks? Aúst Skaþináuisks is used to. Aúst isn't attested, but aústra is used instead for east in Gothic. For modern you use 'nu', but 'andwaírþs' a-stem, means 'present' in Gothic, which is more suitable here.

Another important one: qiþand þata in, in your text from the 13th of september. When it's a relative pronoun, you use 'þatei' instead of 'þata' when you refer to something. Please use this word, as it's grammatically correct. Sandjand = they are sending. have been sent = (I think this, but use the Gothic Verbix to look it up) sandiþs.

I really like your help in supporting the Gothic language, but I just say this to be a bit consistent in our use of the language, if I make mistakes I want to be corrected too in order to use the language in a correct way. Bokareis (talk) 23:18, 25 𐌰𐌺𐍂𐌰𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I get it man, it'll try better in the future. *Aúst is not attested, i derived it from Proto-Germanic *austą, it would be aust in Gothic, although what about aústr) but the words that are used on my Gothic page are from Proto-Germanic, my friend from Bavaria is a Proto-Germanic speaker and has a Proto-Germanic literature page, which inspired me to make the Gothic one. I derived words from Proto-Germanic, any other proto-language, Latin, Greek, Finnish, Native American languages, German or Dutch. Therefore words that are not attested have a * by them like *hrabns (raven), *bius (beer) or *Wala-kusjō (Valkyrie). I said in a post that "about 40% of Gothic is attested, 60% is unattested, but it can be reconstructed via Proto-Germanic words. Gothic does have many words, including many neologisms created in the Gothic Wikipedia, which I am apart of. Normally, unattested, reconstructed words are commonly prefaced with an asterisk (*), to distinguish them from attested forms, but here do you think that is really necessary?" And people commented that they have no problem with them being there. That's my take on it. You see where I am getting at? Also modern and present time are technically the same thing. Thanks for you suggestions, appreciate it and I think my other Gothic-speaking friends will too. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 16:30, 1 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Translation of this Gothic text at your Facebook

Hi Moonspell. I principally don't have a Facebook account so I just read your Gothic language literature group. It becomes better! :D I can read the Gothic Bible quite fluently without a dictionary and I could actually understand this text a bit. Where did you find this extremely interesting text? I hadn't expected any more writings than the ones from Tolkien in modern times.

This is what I can make of it, I will edit it with each part I translate:

Amalitha, kaisar from the Valensians? saved us from the Huns. He gave us a travel over the Donau and in ...... peace. Lupikinus and Maximus accepted us ......, they gave us food. There was betrayal there and there the best of us lost their lives.

Alawiwus the Great, was stabbed in (due to the photograph I can't read this word) by the anger of Walensis.

..... ( some stuff here)*

How can I as a blind Walensis and all in the Roman Empire. (I 'm not sure here though) They sacked the Gothic people every day and it never became peaceful. For more than a hundred and .... ? years the city of Rome got devestated (hurt) by the ruler. They ruled with the speer like a lot of families/tribes which became the (only?, it says "ainahun", but I can't find it.)

Walens will be the next one. It's real/the truth to rob the þerwings (a tribe name?). I practiced before inviting the big ones. I use the family-knife earlier then mine (but this sentence doesn't really make sense to me). I bring my honor and I lead my people. We took the lives of the Appikinau and the lives of the Walens.

By the way, this guy referring to my news to which you replied, who's that person in his image with all the Arab clothing? Bokareis (talk) 23:57, 17 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

That's my friend Anulaibaz Gautafriþuz, he's from Bavaria Germany, but he no Arab, he speaks Proto-Germanic, he's the one that I told you about that made "Proto-Germanic literature" page, which inspired me to create Gothic language literature. About the text I agreed with some other people that commented on the post that this text is not really valid, the word "þerwings" doesn't really exist, it would be *þaírwiggs. This is where the text is from "Endgame: The Calling" by James Frey, http://www.amazon.com/dp/0062332589/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=25YIB48FAYS3T&coliid=I1SNQZ8FKN3MZ9. 00:36, 19 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Just because it's a modern invention doesn't mean that it's worthles. I really like it that James Frey actually learned some Gothic or consulted someone who can write and speak Gothic to add this to the book. In this way more than just Tolkien at least get used in modern times. Bokareis (talk) 01:12, 19 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Damn right, I'm still buying the book. Moonspell Bloodlines (talk) 04:47, 19 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I translated it completely:

Amalitha, kaisar from the Valensians? saved us from the Huns. He gave us a travel over the Donau and in ...... peace. Lupikinus and Maximus accepted us ......, they gave us food. There was betrayal there and there the best of us lost their lives. Alawiwus the Great, was stabbed in (due to the photograph I can't read this word) by the anger of Walensis. Almost never on the ulna I flee followed like one. The tree which fell down because of the deceit of the Romans, grows strong again. The þerwingos came again, they built together again, and/or/but they did it fast. ( "iþ" has multiple meanings and can mean either and, but or 'or'). How can I as a blind Walensis and all in the Roman Empire. (I 'm not sure here though) They sacked the Gothic people every day and it never became peaceful. For more than a hundred and .... ? years the city of Rome got devestated (hurt) by the ruler. They ruled with the speer like a lot of families/tribes which became the (only?, it says "ainahun", but I can't find it.) Walens will be the next one. It's real/the truth to rob the þerwings (a tribe name?). I practiced before inviting the big ones. I use the family-knife earlier then mine (but this sentence doesn't really make sense to me). I bring my honor and I lead my people. We took the lives of the Appikinau and the lives of the Walens.' Bokareis (talk) 23:12, 5 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Oh, about the Gothic bible pictures, I got them from https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/107478600570579319113/106862717016199596783/posts. Moonspell the Goth (Mēnasáiþjis Gutan) (talk) 23:09, 10 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but you previously used a header (now you use another one), which you, which is no problem by the way, copied from my News Website Himma Daga. The problem is that it was already used and I could in fact make such a nice header for your website, but a unique other one with some pictures of original Gothic manuscripts. But you already have a new header so I don't think that you need it. Bokareis (talk) 23:12, 10 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Question

Hi, I know this is a strange question, but I'm interested in etymology, so I noticed on the Gothic Language Literature Facebook page (which I basically just skimmed), you use "niuka" for the f-word. I know it seems like a strange question to ask, but I haven't been able to find out where you could have come up with that that word. None of the other Germanic languages use it as far as I could find. The Proto-Germanic page uses "neukaną", so I'm wondering how that came about. Where did you reconstruct this word from? --Shikku27316 (talk) 21:00, 24 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

niuka (the noun) is from *niukan (the verb) from Dutch 'neuken', here's the page https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/neuken. I don't know but I have derived other Gothic words from Dutch, like *qals "jellyfish" from Dutch 'kwal'. I said in a post that "In PG it would have been *neukaną, so this is a (I'm gonna call this) backwards borrowing from the Gothic term *niukan from the Dutch neuken. I say would've been because I doubt the term actually existed. That's how that worked out. A better question is, where does Dutch neuken come from? You're very welcome :D. Moonspell the Goth (Mēnasáiþjis Gutan) (talk) 22:46, 27 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

'neuken' is also attested in Low Saxon as 'nöken'. But you cannot use it as Gothic 'to f***'. Just because contemporary Dutch has a word with that semantics doesn't mean you can transfer it back through the time to make it a Proto-Germanic word. 'neuken' goes back to the meaning of 'to push, to pound' (not in a sexual meaning). Only possibly in the later 19th century the meaning changed to 'having sexual intercourse' ;) (Only in 1898 van Dale added it to the dictionary with the meaning of 'beslapen, vleeschelijke gemeenschap met eene vrouw hebben'. The word 'neuken' for 'push' has Old Norse cognates like: hnykkja - 'to rip, to pull'. Both go back to Proto-Germanic '*hnukjan-, probably meaning 'to push, to pound'. Also Afrikaans knows 'neuk' for 'hitting hard'.

Thus, you may have to find another word for 'to f***'. It is sort of characteristic that for sexual and vulgar words old words change their meaning, and that quite rapidly. If you browse pornsites like porntube.com or xtube.com (of course only for the research's sake ;)) you will encounter loads of words that only changed in the last years to their meaning as a sexual activity or something else. That means that you will probably not be able to derive a word for 'to f***' from the contemporary Germanic languages. Kevin Behrens (talk) 10:43, 28 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Though my friend Anulaibaz says that hnukijaną means " to cause to push, pull" what about ga-hnukijaną (Gothic hnukjan and gahnukjan)? Moonspell the Goth (Mēnasáiþjis Gutan) (talk) 16:24, 28 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

That wouldn't change anything. It is already causative by the -jan ending. And as I said: vulgar and sexual words developped by people that altered their meaning, not by a word that already carries that meaning, and they are short in life span. We don't know anything about sex talk in Gothic, mostly due to the bible being a bit conservative in that domain. ;) So, almost every word with analogies to the movement, sound or anything of sex could've been possibly used for sexual intercourse and its actions. Kevin Behrens (talk) 16:32, 28 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Me and my friend have come up with *aíbjan and *aibijaną, from PIE *eibhō "fuck" (Koebler says for PIE *eibʰ-, *oibʰ-, *i̯ebʰ-idgV.beischlafen copulatePokorny 298 (439/20), ind., gr., ill., germ., slaw.s. gr. οἰφόλης (oiphólēs), Adj., unzüchtig; s. gr. Οἴβαλος (Oíbalos), M.=PN, Oibalos) though we are not entirely sure. Moonspell the Goth (Mēnasáiþjis Gutan) (talk) 16:50, 28 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

The only thing you can do here is to use the verb 'frijon' which means 'to love'. I think it's basically the best alternative for 'to have intercourse', and Dutch in fact has 'vrijen' as a word for sexual intercourse, which probably comes from 'to love' (but I don't know this at all). This is what you do if you want to do something which you can do with an attested word which approximates the meaning. Of course you can also twist existing meanings just like modern Hebrew did with old Hebrew, and this is also the biggest criticism of Zuckermann, so maybe we should learn from Ghil'ad Zuckermann and not do this with Gothic. Bokareis (talk) 13:49, 29 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

But we can't always take words that already have a meaning and only scratch the semantics of another notion. By this we would end up with a very small vocabulary and loads of words that are polysemous. 'To make love', or in other languages like German 'sich lieben', can indeed be used for 'having sexual intercourse' but they are mostly always euphemisms and not the only words used for that act. What the history of language revitalisation showed was that predominantly words that are out of use can be used for another meaning. But 'frijon' is still very productive, thus, it would be very unlikely that it was also used for something quite different, but semantically related.

Another rather euphemistic word could be 'biligan' for 'having sexual intercourse'. Koebler also knows germanic 'serdan' for 'beischlafen'. Can you give us the source for PIE *eibhō "fuck" and Koebler PIE *eibʰ-, *oibʰ-, *i̯ebʰ-? But don't mix 'fuck' and 'copulate' up. They have in so far two different meanings as they belong to two different registers. 'Copulate' is neutral, and all the attested Germanic words will be rather 'copulate' than 'fuck'. 'fuck' is rather vulgar and as I said those registers, espacially sex talk, change their words quite frequently. We won't be able to reconstruct a Gothic word for it. In opposite to normal registers (mentioned above) we can find here very often changes of semantics of still productive words. So we could make analogies to all the other modern languages and reconstruct a Gothic word for vulgar 'to fuck' by focussing on the kind of movement, the sound or anything else that has been used my modern European languages, like 'to fuck' derived semantically from 'to thrust, to push' (cognate to Dutch 'figggelen', sw. 'fickla' both meaning 'moving back and forth' and eng. 'to fidget'; or Dutch 'fokken' and sw. 'fokka' both meaning to breed). Kevin Behrens (talk) 12:10, 6 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

The source for that is http://indo-european.info/dictionary-translator/, and they say "This translator is based on the Proto-Indo-European Etymological Dictionary by Fernando López-Menchero, which is fully included as Appendices to A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Third Edition. The work contains correct usage of the PIE words, proper meaning, derivatives in early IE dialects and laryngeal roots." That's where the word is from. Moonspell the Goth (Mēnasáiþjis Gutan) (talk) 00:39, 11 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Alice in Wonderland in Gothic

Inspired by the Lojban projects, I 'm just like they do with their language translating Alice in Wonderland in Gothic, you can see the progress here if I want to continue it:

http://roel.tengudev.com/GutiskaRazda/alice.html

Bokareis (talk) 02:05, 25 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Well, the name 'Alice" wouldn't work as Gothic lacks the letter C, and the name Alice in Gothic would probably look like this *Aþalaháids (the English Alice is from Old French Alice, from Old High German Adalheidis, from adal (“noble”) + heit (“kind, sort”). But I think a Greek borrowing could work, *Aleikō or maybe *Aleika from Αλίκη (Alíki) or maybe from English Alice, *Aleisa maybe? But other than that it looks great my friend. Moonspell the Goth (Mēnasáiþjis Gutan) (talk) 22:54, 27 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I was in fact thinking of 'Alisja' or 'Aleisja', it seems like a good alternative to me. Although *Aþalaháids may be the reconstruction, it won't improve the read-ability. As for the rest you say, thanks, I would like to translate the whole book so I translate small parts every time. I also think this is much more interesting and fun to translate than Plato or the Communist Manifesto. Bokareis (talk) 13:54, 29 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I was thinking about translating Plato, I just became a Platonist not too long ago and I also would like to translate Aristotle. Some books I think might be fun to translate would be the Percy Jackson books. Moonspell the Goth (Mēnasáiþjis Gutan) (talk) 16:33, 29 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I tried to make a start with Kriton because it's short. But because the books of Plato aren't all that fun in story-line I 'm not really inspired to translate them. Maybe you do a better job, but make sure that your Gothic grammar is good enough before you translate. I just found out for example when you use the optative, after 'ei' and 'thatei' for example and after verbs like 'to think', so this is very important to know before you start translating or somebody needs to correct all your work again. Bokareis (talk) 18:11, 29 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

New IRC chatroom to both learn and teach other people Gothic

The channel can be joined with Mibbit:

http://widget00.mibbit.com/?server=mibbit.afternet.org&channel=%23learngothic

But you can use other clients too, one which I like a lot is: https://qwebirc.afternet.org/

The channel is #learngothic, the server is AfterNet.

Bokareis (talk) 22:12, 29 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Qwel :D

Help in translating apps

Hi Moonspell, you said that you would like to help me. I will explain how you can do that. Go to www.crowdin.com, it's a localization website where you can translate websites, apps and other things in other languages. Register an account there. My username there is Gothicspeaker. These are some of the projects for which I succeed in getting moderators/administrators to add Gothic: https://crowdin.com/project/atomic (Atomic, an IRC app) https://crowdin.com/project/dictionaryformids (Dictionaryformids, a dictionary) https://crowdin.com/project/greader (greader, a news reader) https://crowdin.com/project/omni-notes (omni notes, an app to take notes, this one will in fact be added first probably because once fully translated it will be added to the next edition.)

Thanks for your help. As they are community projects we can check each others translations and vote. Bokareis (talk) 22:51, 31 𐍅𐌴𐌹𐌽𐌼𐌴𐌽𐍉𐌸𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Your Gothic Wiki

It looks nice, not bad at all, I helped you by adding some corrections to your text about the Gothic culture. I recommend to use "saggwshiuhma" instead of "band", as, although band is used in a lot of languages like German, English, Dutch etc., I think that it's better if we use Gothic roots instead of an existing word, while it isn't necessary. Bokareis (talk) 21:28, 5 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Alright. Cool, thanks. Though on loan words, I kinda now make gothic equvialents by translating Anglish (the Purism in English) like hepatitis in Anglish is liver-sickness (Goth: liba siukinassus), alphabet is staffhoard (Goth: stafahuzd), although I am aware that there is already a word for alphabet. Moonspell the Goth (Mēnasáiþjis Gutan) (talk) 18:12, 6 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

It's good how you help in increasing the online presence of Gothic, but in my translation-work I try to use all terms available at the Gothic wiki if available for neologisms and I would recommend to not come up with new words for, for example alphabet like "stafahuzd", because this might confuse people if we succeed in getting more people to speak Gothic. I doubt it, but if so it's better to have certain standard words. Unfortunately, we don't have something like an official dictionary, just as the Latin wiki has for neologisms. I hope to get more people to speak Gothic by going to Afternet and #learngothic, but the last days there are 0 visitors in fact and I think that this will be the second fail of a Gothic IRC channel. Old English is simply much more known and learned, that's why the Old English channel has quite some visitors and the Gothic ones none.

By the way, have you made an account at Crowdin yet? Bokareis (talk) 20:07, 6 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

The Latin wiki has a dictionary for neologisms? Didn't know that. Second fail? What happened with the first? That reminds me, I tried to create a Proto-Indo-European literature page but I failed miserably because I don't know PIE and it doesn't have a whole lot of words in it lexicon, whereas my friends Proto-Germanic literature page is doing well, with 114 likes as of this post. I kinda decided to back out of your websites because I don't wanna carry to much weight on my shoulders, I have the Gothic literature page to keep up (I love doing it) as well as the newly launched Gothic Wiki page. One person can only do so much. I have also have other stuff to do than revive a language. I hope you understand my friend. 21:24, 6 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

There was just 1 visitor and after a while 0 visitors, that's what happened to it. As for Crowdin, they are not websites but apps. Often you just have to translate about 5 or 6 pages with about 30 short phrases/words/ terms on it. I would appreciate your help so if you have some time. You could also, once we have translated 1 app fully, refer to it at your Gothic Literature Page so that people can install the app. As for your Gothic Wiki page, may I ask what makes it different from our Wikipedia? I also found a translation of whole chapter 7 of Alice in Wonderland today by the way. Bokareis (talk) 21:45, 6 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Ok, I understand. Well, I can try to create a Runic converter for you so that you can translate texts to Runes easy too. I have already translated 20 quotes for you by the way. Bokareis (talk) 11:23, 7 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I have a Runic keyboard installed, but a Runic converter would be faster. Like I said before, I like runes. And about my dictionary, it not a complete mess like the one on here is, http://got.gutiska.wikia.com/wiki/%F0%90%8D%85%F0%90%8C%B0%F0%90%8C%BF%F0%90%8D%82%F0%90%8C%B3%F0%90%8C%B0%F0%90%8C%B1%F0%90%8D%89%F0%90%8C%BA%F0%90%8D%89%F0%90%8D%83_%28Dictionary%29. Moonspell the Goth (Mēnasáiþjis Gutan) (talk) 16:10, 7 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Idea for your Language Literature Page

I wonder if I could possibly contribute. It's a literature Gothic page right? I could maybe translate several famous quotes from for example writers for you, if I translate about 50 of them you have a nice collection. You could pick out one of the quotes I translated every day and post it at the literature page. That might also be something which makes people want to come to it. The only problem is that I don't want a Facebook account, so you would need to post it yourself. The only thing I want in return is that you refer to me, just something like a small: Translated by Roel, or: Translated by Bokareis. I don't know if it's possible in Facebook, but can you make it like if you hover over Roel, you can go to the Gothic news website? In that way people can contact me if something is wrong, as I have a contact form at my website. Ehm, I think it's quite a good idea, especially for the subject of your website. What do you think of it? And do you have an e-mail which I can send it to? We shouldn't do it at Wikipedia, as here people would be able to already read all the quotes, while it's much more fun if it's a surprise. I would be happy to contribute to your website in that way! :D Bokareis (talk) 21:57, 6 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

I have a request by the way. The IRC channel #learngothic is for people which want to learn or teach Gothic, it can be entered by this link: http://widget00.mibbit.com/?server=mibbit.afternet.org&channel=%23learngothic, could you refer to it at your Gothic Literature Page so that more people know it and might use it participate in Gothic reading sessions in which we read Gothic texts together? It's up to you, it's your page so you have to decide yourself if you want to add it, but it would be really nice if we had a good IRC channel for the Gothic language which is visited, currently this is the only channel with some visitors, we are with 3 in fact, but more visitors would be appreciated. Bokareis (talk) 22:10, 6 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Actually it is Runic inscriptions that bring people in. Most of em get up to 50-60 post reach. Where as my normal is 24-32 post reach. But my page has 71 likes. As for my Gothic Wiki, You're are not limited on images, here you are. You can post any picture you want my my Gothic Wiki. But other than that I don't really see a difference. To contact me, my email is moonspellbloodlines@gmail.com. Moonspell the Goth (Mēnasáiþjis Gutan) (talk) 01:43, 7 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Translation of Forum

Hello Moonspell,

I just looked at your Gothic Wiki again and it looks nice, but I saw that you translated forum as: 𐌲𐌰𐍅𐌰𐌿𐍂𐌳𐌹 𐌼𐍉𐍄 (Forum), I discussed the word with Zylbath and you might have missed it, but we agreed on use of the word 𐌼𐌰𐌸𐌻, because the ancient word 𐌼𐌰𐌸𐌻 basically means a place of gathering, it is translated by Koebler as: Versammlungsort (gathering place, meeting place), Marktplatz (market place), Markt (market), it has these three meanings and the first one obviously has the same meaning too. It's your website so it's your choice, but this Wikipedia and all other websites in Gothic use maþl, so if you want to use the commonly agreed on terms, I recommend to use "maþl" there. Bokareis (talk) 20:48, 10 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Oh, yea I saw maþl on here. I just used gawaúrdi mōt because it means "conversation assembly". Thanks for liking my Wiki and my Gothic literature page, appreciate it very much. Moonspell the Goth (Mēnasáiþjis Gutan) (talk) 22:03, 10 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Oh ok, well it's your website so like I said, you are free to use whatever you want, but other websites will use maþl. I posted some corrections of things at your wiki at your forum. Bokareis (talk) 22:18, 10 𐍆𐍂𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2014 (UTC)

Your articles at main page

Hi Moonspell, your articles Agustus Kaisar and Haithnadoms can now randomly appear at the main page each week. I 'm currently spitting through the best articles for inclusion at the main page. I first need to correct your other articles before they can be included too. Bokareis (talk) 20:31, 27 𐌼𐌰𐌾𐌿𐍃 2015 (UTC)

Gothic interface discussion

Hi, please join our discussion here: Gothic interface discussion. Bokareis (talk) 12:43, 8 𐌰𐍆𐍄𐌿𐌼𐌰 𐌾𐌹𐌿𐌻𐌴𐌹𐍃 2016 (UTC)